Some other quick notes .. the paintings .. I first went to a gallery showing Bob's paintings in 2008. Chemnitz, Germany. I went there just to see his paintings. I think it was possibly one of the first showings of his artwork of this kind? I'm not sure exactly why it was where it was. I decided to go on a trip there. I won't go into all the details, but just this point .. It was Bob Dylan who had drawn, painted these, I was looking at the lines, looking at the faces, looking for unusual aspects.. the older paintings had more of these .. as time has gone on, they have become more 'like photographs' .. more obviously scenes from photographs maybe, then from films, and to me I enjoy looking at them, but.. I get the sense there is something strange about it all ... Something that isn't what it seems. He has made a point of keeping them separate from the songs, a different 'thing' .. like I said earlier.. I get the sense that this is something he enjoys doing, of course, but also there has been more and more of sense of not putting in there ... not giving anything away. Okay, sorry, another slight tangent.. .
Bob is right handed, yet many times going back to the 1980's he signed autographs with this left hand. In a recent interview I read someone say that they asked him about this, Bob replied that he didn't want people analysing him from his handwriting, so he uses his left hand.. the person replied well they will just analyse the other side of you!.. Bob gave them a funny look (Maybe I got the story slightly wrong)... My point is.. this I think relates to Bob's paintings. How they have gone as the years passed. Bob could get a canvas and draw all kinds of unusual scenes that pass through his vision, his mind, a tree with an eyeball in it, leaves with eyelashes hanging down, dipping into a jar of blue wine, .. if he did. .. likely there would be more analysing, talk of who knows what...
One point that I was about to make earlier. When I went to the gallery in 2008, I don't recall having a sense of wondering 'Was he here?, where was this painted? .. etc' .. I was looking at them.. I don't know, how I look at things. In a similar way, I can listen to a Bob Dylan album for years, and hear lines, here and there, have a sense of something, a scene, then a different scene.. certain instruments, how he sings a certain line — months later, I listen to the song and it's like a new song. Like you say, it's pretty obvious that he wasn't in many of the places anyway ~ in an opium den, sitting on the side of the road somewhere even, I didn't see it, or even consider that was something ..
I have typed quite a lot here, it's evening time, ..about to go for a run across a field. I am tempted to send this, as I can't bare to read it back and see what I actually typed, and take out the bits that make no sense. . and rearrange the others that slightly do, which I suppose is a sign I shouldn't actually send this right now, in this guise.. (I did) (go over it a little I mean).
This 'aesthetic evaluation' way that you refer to though — judging it in one way or another, if a line from a book is used, photographs, something isn't entirely what it seems, a joke, (I really liked what you were writing about there, the looking in terms of a joke), something that doesn't seem serious, (...) really for Bob to do those things. .. I feel that is how he is, the sense I have of him from over the decades, ... On the using lines from books aspect, maybe previously it was just a few words together .. maybe he read them in verse or story months before, they come out as he writing in some kind of way, he adds a line, changes them a bit.. maybe as the years pass this changes in some way, he knows that this happens .. This line just came into my mind, not sure it's related, but I like it,
"I can see the history of the whole human race
It’s all right there - its carved into your face ..."
I noticed that you mentioned the self awareness, I feel like that is an important point, even if some of these things come out quickly without too much 'thought', how Bob Dylan is, over the years, that is all in there.. even with the changes, the seemingly never standing still (it looks like I'm movin' ..) and for this album, Love and Theft, he puts more obvious lines in from a book. Of course he leaves a trail. The title, the quotation marks .. songs 'for' people in there. Lines about 'you can't open up your mind to every conceivable point of view' ..a lot of lines in the songs with other people saying them ~ I recall at some point after the album was released, hearing the talk, seeing the headlines of someone finding that he had used lines from books .. Not that I wouldn't find it interesting to find those, just I think the 'tone' a the time, maybe people I heard speaking, posting of it, was that he had 'stolen' something, that somehow it was a terrible ..almost like a lie, a deception (exactly what you are talking about in your essay I suppose.. but expressed a lot more succinctly than me here!..), with your theories for the reasons why people are like this.. 'upset' .. like they've been 'fooled' .. I think what I'm trying to put down here, the reason I mentioned the 1960 interview, 2001 Rome press conference.. even say 1965 San Fran press conference.. the questions... many of them seem like they are 'outsiders' (their expressions as they ask, and hear the answers), like they are trying to understand something that isn't there to understand, 'something is happening, but you don't know what it is' ..as Bob is answering there, there is a confidence, he 'just knows it will be alright' .. I think said that at one point in the 1965 San Fran press conference, (in reference to writing the lines to his recent albums, compared to earlier ones), ..
.. In a similar way, there is a sureness, an 'at ease feel' in the 2001 Rome press conference, as they are asking him about the title, the songs, .. but also he seems to hold back, there is a mystery. He also does something which I have noticed that he seems to have spells of doing over the years.. when people give theories of something in relation to him, his songs, his ways, he answers 'Exactly' .. in a sure way. There is is something about how he says it though. He maybe wouldn't have wanted to say that in 1965, but in 2001, all that he has made, what is there for people to see if they know where to look, or somehow 'find' it, in one way or another.. he doesn't need to explain that maybe that isn't how it really is.. he can answer 'Exactly' .. Maybe it really was how the person said, .. but either way, he's not on trial (I think he answered with that once in a press conference?), and that's true, and a good point I think.
Does any of this make any sense? I am sorry for posting such a reply here, I know I am not laying the words down particularly clearly. (I really enjoyed reading a few of your essays here, I enjoy writing, and it seemed your words gave me some ideas, and feeling I wanted to type something). In years gone by I would have maybe have been able to rearrange the words in some kind of way (I did go back quickly just to make it a little less like I threw a whole lot of words at the screen, and let them lie where they may..
(14th August, part one of the comment, I typed it out, but couldn't send it all in one reply)
I will just type a few lines here as I was going to reply previously to some parts of this, but it seemed like it would take quite a bit of typing, and I decided I would leave it until a time I could type it out well.. but the time hasn't come yet, so these are just a few lines.. I might type more later as another reply, I hope that you don't mind. I quite like considering this, as it is something I would usually not ~ I will explain that a bit further down ... (Note from the end: I typed more than a few lines here,)
This part, "The controversies raised by Dylan’s appropriation are based in an outdated model of aesthetic evaluation, one derived from a view of art as a reflection of the artist’s beliefs or feelings. If we think that artist’s are praiseworthy because their work is honest, that it is true or in some way expresses what they “really” think or feel, then the revelation that their words or images come from someone else causes us to feel betrayed or upset."
.. This seems to make sense — why some people react in this way. Reading your essay here is interesting, many of these things.. using certain lines, titles, photographs, melodies, .. when I hear people talk about these aspects over the years, I often get a sense that they are looking at it in a way that I don't relate to .. the painting, the artwork, I suppose is slightly different.. How do I explain? ... It's maybe something I wouldn't ever usually try to explain ... I will give the example of "Love and Theft" (I noted straight away when the album came out, the cover has the album title in quotation marks, that gave me a sense of something unusual about it.. also noting the High Water (For Charley Patton) .. a nod to his song High Water Everywhere) .. (I maybe mentioned it in a previous reply, but in Cynthia Gooding interview, 1960, Bob plays Emmett Till, afterwards he jokes how Len Chandler had a different song with the same melody, and Bob laughs that he 'stole the whole thing' .. I mention this, as how Bob says that, the tone, how relaxed he seems, he just knows that is okay .. what I mean is how I see Bob Dylan, everything about him, he obviously has made so much new original music art poetry, how every you want to label it, that someone like that, can be like this.. and he new back then, had a sense of something ... that is part of it..)) .. Just another note, the Rome 2001 press conference, someone asks Bob if love and theft are synonymous .. Bob answers something like, are they what?? and starts laughing. They ask again, and I think Bob just laughs again .. before he answers they re-word the question, and say something about being on different ends of the scale. Bob replies something like 'Exactly' .. they aren't on different ends of the scale (He maybe uses a different word). Anyway, to get to my point (yes I have one, or two maybe!.. ) .. 'theft' in terms of 'love' .. a slight link to something I was considering ~ Bob knows if uses people words, melodies, that often that is a good thing, also for the other person (likely especially back in the early days ) .. They are used affectionately, showing appreciation
.. I recall an interview with Dave Van Ronk, him describing how Bob took his version of House of The Rising Sun, which he played live, hadn't recorded, and recorded it on his debut album .. Dave mentions how Bob asked him would it be okay, he replied 'gee I might want to record that myself' .. Bob told him it was too late. Dave Van Ronk telling that story decades later, he's surely glad Bob did what he did ..I'm not sure how this is defined or whether it's defined in terms of art or whatever, or appropriation (I hadn't really considered that word previously) (also, this could apply to using photograph of unknown person who uploaded it online), but I suppose what I mean is it seems that you are right, when you refer to this different way of looking at an artist.. when you said, an "outdated model of aesthetic evaluation" -- you mentioned the reflections of their beliefs and feelings.. I feel like this is interesting. The reflection could be distorted, through broken glass, in a stream. It can still be that, but maybe not in an a way the person imagines it. I notice in a lot of the early interviews Bob did, people would ask, 'does he feel it, does he mean what he says', all these types of questions.. that to me seem insulting to ask someone. I suppose they are asking such questions as these people felt he was 'having them on' ... they felt a separation, but of course that's the case, that is what makes a lot of the songs so ..good.. they aren't about Bob Dylan situations, (I don't know if that makes sense), to me they aren't anyway.
I like this here ~ "The problem is that trust is a matter of familiarity, and familiarity is not universal, which makes artistic appropriation more like an inside joke, where part of the value of the appropriation is the fact that not everyone will “get it.” But those that do get the joke, do so because they are equipped with the right background expectations, experiences, and attitudes." .. This could be said for many aspect of Bob Dylan and his songs, how he is? Reading the line of yours here, I was hearing this verse,
"All of my loyal and much-loved companions
They approve of me and share my code
I practice a faith that's been long abandoned
Ain't no altars on this long and lonesome road"
..It may not be related, I hadn't dwelt on the verse too much, but I always liked it when I heard it.
(part three..) (the last part)
Some other quick notes .. the paintings .. I first went to a gallery showing Bob's paintings in 2008. Chemnitz, Germany. I went there just to see his paintings. I think it was possibly one of the first showings of his artwork of this kind? I'm not sure exactly why it was where it was. I decided to go on a trip there. I won't go into all the details, but just this point .. It was Bob Dylan who had drawn, painted these, I was looking at the lines, looking at the faces, looking for unusual aspects.. the older paintings had more of these .. as time has gone on, they have become more 'like photographs' .. more obviously scenes from photographs maybe, then from films, and to me I enjoy looking at them, but.. I get the sense there is something strange about it all ... Something that isn't what it seems. He has made a point of keeping them separate from the songs, a different 'thing' .. like I said earlier.. I get the sense that this is something he enjoys doing, of course, but also there has been more and more of sense of not putting in there ... not giving anything away. Okay, sorry, another slight tangent.. .
Bob is right handed, yet many times going back to the 1980's he signed autographs with this left hand. In a recent interview I read someone say that they asked him about this, Bob replied that he didn't want people analysing him from his handwriting, so he uses his left hand.. the person replied well they will just analyse the other side of you!.. Bob gave them a funny look (Maybe I got the story slightly wrong)... My point is.. this I think relates to Bob's paintings. How they have gone as the years passed. Bob could get a canvas and draw all kinds of unusual scenes that pass through his vision, his mind, a tree with an eyeball in it, leaves with eyelashes hanging down, dipping into a jar of blue wine, .. if he did. .. likely there would be more analysing, talk of who knows what...
One point that I was about to make earlier. When I went to the gallery in 2008, I don't recall having a sense of wondering 'Was he here?, where was this painted? .. etc' .. I was looking at them.. I don't know, how I look at things. In a similar way, I can listen to a Bob Dylan album for years, and hear lines, here and there, have a sense of something, a scene, then a different scene.. certain instruments, how he sings a certain line — months later, I listen to the song and it's like a new song. Like you say, it's pretty obvious that he wasn't in many of the places anyway ~ in an opium den, sitting on the side of the road somewhere even, I didn't see it, or even consider that was something ..
I have typed quite a lot here, it's evening time, ..about to go for a run across a field. I am tempted to send this, as I can't bare to read it back and see what I actually typed, and take out the bits that make no sense. . and rearrange the others that slightly do, which I suppose is a sign I shouldn't actually send this right now, in this guise.. (I did) (go over it a little I mean).
(Sorry, so many brackets too..) ..
__
nm.
(part two..!)
This 'aesthetic evaluation' way that you refer to though — judging it in one way or another, if a line from a book is used, photographs, something isn't entirely what it seems, a joke, (I really liked what you were writing about there, the looking in terms of a joke), something that doesn't seem serious, (...) really for Bob to do those things. .. I feel that is how he is, the sense I have of him from over the decades, ... On the using lines from books aspect, maybe previously it was just a few words together .. maybe he read them in verse or story months before, they come out as he writing in some kind of way, he adds a line, changes them a bit.. maybe as the years pass this changes in some way, he knows that this happens .. This line just came into my mind, not sure it's related, but I like it,
"I can see the history of the whole human race
It’s all right there - its carved into your face ..."
I noticed that you mentioned the self awareness, I feel like that is an important point, even if some of these things come out quickly without too much 'thought', how Bob Dylan is, over the years, that is all in there.. even with the changes, the seemingly never standing still (it looks like I'm movin' ..) and for this album, Love and Theft, he puts more obvious lines in from a book. Of course he leaves a trail. The title, the quotation marks .. songs 'for' people in there. Lines about 'you can't open up your mind to every conceivable point of view' ..a lot of lines in the songs with other people saying them ~ I recall at some point after the album was released, hearing the talk, seeing the headlines of someone finding that he had used lines from books .. Not that I wouldn't find it interesting to find those, just I think the 'tone' a the time, maybe people I heard speaking, posting of it, was that he had 'stolen' something, that somehow it was a terrible ..almost like a lie, a deception (exactly what you are talking about in your essay I suppose.. but expressed a lot more succinctly than me here!..), with your theories for the reasons why people are like this.. 'upset' .. like they've been 'fooled' .. I think what I'm trying to put down here, the reason I mentioned the 1960 interview, 2001 Rome press conference.. even say 1965 San Fran press conference.. the questions... many of them seem like they are 'outsiders' (their expressions as they ask, and hear the answers), like they are trying to understand something that isn't there to understand, 'something is happening, but you don't know what it is' ..as Bob is answering there, there is a confidence, he 'just knows it will be alright' .. I think said that at one point in the 1965 San Fran press conference, (in reference to writing the lines to his recent albums, compared to earlier ones), ..
.. In a similar way, there is a sureness, an 'at ease feel' in the 2001 Rome press conference, as they are asking him about the title, the songs, .. but also he seems to hold back, there is a mystery. He also does something which I have noticed that he seems to have spells of doing over the years.. when people give theories of something in relation to him, his songs, his ways, he answers 'Exactly' .. in a sure way. There is is something about how he says it though. He maybe wouldn't have wanted to say that in 1965, but in 2001, all that he has made, what is there for people to see if they know where to look, or somehow 'find' it, in one way or another.. he doesn't need to explain that maybe that isn't how it really is.. he can answer 'Exactly' .. Maybe it really was how the person said, .. but either way, he's not on trial (I think he answered with that once in a press conference?), and that's true, and a good point I think.
Does any of this make any sense? I am sorry for posting such a reply here, I know I am not laying the words down particularly clearly. (I really enjoyed reading a few of your essays here, I enjoy writing, and it seemed your words gave me some ideas, and feeling I wanted to type something). In years gone by I would have maybe have been able to rearrange the words in some kind of way (I did go back quickly just to make it a little less like I threw a whole lot of words at the screen, and let them lie where they may..
(14th August, part one of the comment, I typed it out, but couldn't send it all in one reply)
I will just type a few lines here as I was going to reply previously to some parts of this, but it seemed like it would take quite a bit of typing, and I decided I would leave it until a time I could type it out well.. but the time hasn't come yet, so these are just a few lines.. I might type more later as another reply, I hope that you don't mind. I quite like considering this, as it is something I would usually not ~ I will explain that a bit further down ... (Note from the end: I typed more than a few lines here,)
This part, "The controversies raised by Dylan’s appropriation are based in an outdated model of aesthetic evaluation, one derived from a view of art as a reflection of the artist’s beliefs or feelings. If we think that artist’s are praiseworthy because their work is honest, that it is true or in some way expresses what they “really” think or feel, then the revelation that their words or images come from someone else causes us to feel betrayed or upset."
.. This seems to make sense — why some people react in this way. Reading your essay here is interesting, many of these things.. using certain lines, titles, photographs, melodies, .. when I hear people talk about these aspects over the years, I often get a sense that they are looking at it in a way that I don't relate to .. the painting, the artwork, I suppose is slightly different.. How do I explain? ... It's maybe something I wouldn't ever usually try to explain ... I will give the example of "Love and Theft" (I noted straight away when the album came out, the cover has the album title in quotation marks, that gave me a sense of something unusual about it.. also noting the High Water (For Charley Patton) .. a nod to his song High Water Everywhere) .. (I maybe mentioned it in a previous reply, but in Cynthia Gooding interview, 1960, Bob plays Emmett Till, afterwards he jokes how Len Chandler had a different song with the same melody, and Bob laughs that he 'stole the whole thing' .. I mention this, as how Bob says that, the tone, how relaxed he seems, he just knows that is okay .. what I mean is how I see Bob Dylan, everything about him, he obviously has made so much new original music art poetry, how every you want to label it, that someone like that, can be like this.. and he new back then, had a sense of something ... that is part of it..)) .. Just another note, the Rome 2001 press conference, someone asks Bob if love and theft are synonymous .. Bob answers something like, are they what?? and starts laughing. They ask again, and I think Bob just laughs again .. before he answers they re-word the question, and say something about being on different ends of the scale. Bob replies something like 'Exactly' .. they aren't on different ends of the scale (He maybe uses a different word). Anyway, to get to my point (yes I have one, or two maybe!.. ) .. 'theft' in terms of 'love' .. a slight link to something I was considering ~ Bob knows if uses people words, melodies, that often that is a good thing, also for the other person (likely especially back in the early days ) .. They are used affectionately, showing appreciation
.. I recall an interview with Dave Van Ronk, him describing how Bob took his version of House of The Rising Sun, which he played live, hadn't recorded, and recorded it on his debut album .. Dave mentions how Bob asked him would it be okay, he replied 'gee I might want to record that myself' .. Bob told him it was too late. Dave Van Ronk telling that story decades later, he's surely glad Bob did what he did ..I'm not sure how this is defined or whether it's defined in terms of art or whatever, or appropriation (I hadn't really considered that word previously) (also, this could apply to using photograph of unknown person who uploaded it online), but I suppose what I mean is it seems that you are right, when you refer to this different way of looking at an artist.. when you said, an "outdated model of aesthetic evaluation" -- you mentioned the reflections of their beliefs and feelings.. I feel like this is interesting. The reflection could be distorted, through broken glass, in a stream. It can still be that, but maybe not in an a way the person imagines it. I notice in a lot of the early interviews Bob did, people would ask, 'does he feel it, does he mean what he says', all these types of questions.. that to me seem insulting to ask someone. I suppose they are asking such questions as these people felt he was 'having them on' ... they felt a separation, but of course that's the case, that is what makes a lot of the songs so ..good.. they aren't about Bob Dylan situations, (I don't know if that makes sense), to me they aren't anyway.
I like this here ~ "The problem is that trust is a matter of familiarity, and familiarity is not universal, which makes artistic appropriation more like an inside joke, where part of the value of the appropriation is the fact that not everyone will “get it.” But those that do get the joke, do so because they are equipped with the right background expectations, experiences, and attitudes." .. This could be said for many aspect of Bob Dylan and his songs, how he is? Reading the line of yours here, I was hearing this verse,
"All of my loyal and much-loved companions
They approve of me and share my code
I practice a faith that's been long abandoned
Ain't no altars on this long and lonesome road"
..It may not be related, I hadn't dwelt on the verse too much, but I always liked it when I heard it.